Discussion:
snow chains
(too old to reply)
ANDY
2004-07-13 04:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
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a
2004-07-13 05:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ANDY
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
ad
Good value generally can be had buying diamond pattern easyfit (from
outside, no need to reach around behind the (often muddy) wheel style from
Aussie Ski cnetres ie Aussie disposals or Autobarn. Expect $125 or so for
these, compared to Euro brands from various specialists for $300++!
lal_truckee
2004-07-13 16:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by a
Post by ANDY
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
ad
Good value generally can be had buying diamond pattern easyfit (from
outside, no need to reach around behind the (often muddy) wheel style from
Aussie Ski cnetres ie Aussie disposals or Autobarn. Expect $125 or so for
these, compared to Euro brands from various specialists for $300++!
Word form the states: Your Oz businessmen are ripping you off. (There's
such a discrepancy in price I had to look up the exchange rate - I
thought maybe the Oz dollar had dropped to HK Dollar value or something.)

Decent everyday chains go for about US$25 in the Sierra of California -
top price imported chains for $50-$70 or so; but really there's no
reason to buy them - they are no better. So somebody is making an
indecent amount of profit off you guys, even if there's no local source
and all chains are hand-imported for resale by Aussies returning from tour.

I'd protest the next time I saw those inflated prices. But I suppose as
a practical matter you're stuck - screwed by the system.
Toby Ponsenby
2004-07-13 16:27:08 UTC
Permalink
<| lal_truckee |> did write on 14Jul2004 at 2:02:27 AM
Post by lal_truckee
Word form the states: Your Oz businessmen are ripping you off. (There's
such a discrepancy in price I had to look up the exchange rate - I
thought maybe the Oz dollar had dropped to HK Dollar value or something.)
Decent everyday chains go for about US$25 in the Sierra of California -
top price imported chains for $50-$70 or so; but really there's no
reason to buy them - they are no better. So somebody is making an
indecent amount of profit off you guys, even if there's no local source
and all chains are hand-imported for resale by Aussies returning from tour.
I'd protest the next time I saw those inflated prices. But I suppose as
a practical matter you're stuck - screwed by the system.
Interesting take on the matter - but I'd be hesitant to call it a system:-)
The scam goes like this.
USA is a BIG market.
Aus is a SMALL market.
Ergo we have to pay more for 'stuff' than Yankees do, in, say - peanuts per
item (using the peanut currency avoids exchange rate shenanigans, since
both places grow them). And then there's import duties. AKA tariff AKA Tax
GovCo gouging. (Hell, we even pay Taxes on Taxes when we import stuff -
like 'Duty' on freight and the local GST as our special bonus. By
legislation, no less.

The reason it's a scam is that the BIG market has more suppliers of stuff
than the SMALL market, and the number of customers per supplier of stuff is
in all probability not a hell of a lot different.
eg, 4 Major Aus banks, and 20 odd thousand US Banks, for instance.
Of course, the conglomeration principle of business acquisitions may be at
work against Aus consumers and there are probably issues with economy of
scale in production.
But remember, what you saw in the pricing of chains was at the 'retail'
level. And 'retailers' here would be paying well less for their Yankee
origin stuff than mere wood-ducks in Aus would pay to buy then cold from
Yankee sources.

There is an issue here that Hatteras 52 yachts are really meant for Yankee
businessmen to desport themselves in. But Aus businessmen aspire to that
blessed state as well instead of say, a Haines 5 metre skid-boat more
befitting their proper station in life.
Another issue if CEO pillaging of companies. Here, they expect to be able
to rape a company extent, and with the same return on their efforts as
their Yankee brothers in crime. In fact, several of the more sparkling
examples of new-age corporate criminals here have been Yankees.
This of course makes things a tad awkward in a SMALL market. But they
somehow manage.

Of course, it's probably a truth of the first order that a more than
reasonable proportion of Aus business people are simply greedy cunts.
--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur
Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt.
By Order
K.K.
ANDY
2004-07-13 21:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toby Ponsenby
Interesting take on the matter - but I'd be hesitant to call it a system:-)
The scam goes like this.
USA is a BIG market.
Aus is a SMALL market.
Ergo we have to pay more for 'stuff' than Yankees do, in, say - peanuts per
The market for these would be hundreds of times larger in the US than here.
Even the market in the Sierras would be much bigger than here.

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Toby Ponsenby
2004-07-14 05:49:40 UTC
Permalink
<| ANDY |> did write on 14Jul2004 at 7:56:51 AM
Post by Toby Ponsenby
Post by Toby Ponsenby
Interesting take on the matter - but I'd be hesitant to call it a
system:-)
Post by Toby Ponsenby
The scam goes like this.
USA is a BIG market.
Aus is a SMALL market.
Ergo we have to pay more for 'stuff' than Yankees do, in, say - peanuts
per
The market for these would be hundreds of times larger in the US than here.
Even the market in the Sierras would be much bigger than here.
ad
ANDY - go home, your mother wants you.

Else read what I wrote - for the first time.
Might seem like fun to you to selectively quote and then play that number -
but it's far more fun if even take even close to the majority or a post
into consideration before you decide to have a go.
In the meantime, thanks for playing - half the match.
--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur
Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt.
By Order
K.K.
Graham W
2004-07-14 16:10:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toby Ponsenby
ANDY - go home, your mother wants you.
Toby, for someone who is basically a conspiracy nut with a very
distorted view of the world, you're very keen to tell other people to go
home to mummy.

How about you consider that since your view of the world is out at the
frnge, maybe just maybe, rather than you being more perceptive and able
to spot a scam than 99.8% of us, perhaps you're just more paranoid than
99.8% of us?
Toby Ponsenby
2004-07-15 00:22:35 UTC
Permalink
<| Graham W |> did write on 15Jul2004 at 2:10:33 AM
Post by Graham W
Post by Toby Ponsenby
ANDY - go home, your mother wants you.
Toby, for someone who is basically a conspiracy nut with a very
distorted view of the world, you're very keen to tell other people to go
home to mummy.
Give me a break - I gave him an alternative.
Post by Graham W
How about you consider that since your view of the world is out at the
frnge, maybe just maybe, rather than you being more perceptive and able
to spot a scam than 99.8% of us, perhaps you're just more paranoid than
99.8% of us?
Less paranoid than .2 of us?
Yeah, that sounds better.

Now that you mention it:-)
(Disclaimer - I don't give a shit about gambling either way)
Current 'fun' is watching the GovCo squirm about on-line gambling.
They've decided NOT to attempt to limit Internet gambling.
Which is on the face of it a good move.
But is it?
Sure, doing limit stuff would be difficult with the net, and then there's
the 'freedom of choice' scam.
But the real deal?
Digital TV. Interactive Digital TV. And Radio.
The idea is of course to get screen in screen live event gambling up and
running with (mostly)free-to-air TV. This is to snare all those currently
not of a mind to leave the house, or actively get involved in gambling
through resistant to current enticements. Screen in screen betting on
events - as they run. A bookies dream, given that they odds are stacked by
definition anyway.
Now, if GovCo now became involved in limiting this sort of stuff via the
internet, what would they do when Digital TV came to town in earnest????
What a quandary.
And they've avoided it. Thus securing shitloads of money for campaigning
the next election,
And ditching community concerns on the matter right about now.
Wonderful stuff.
Who would have thought that the Digital TV game was just a 'front'?
About 0.2% if us, is all:-)
--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur
Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt.
By Order
K.K.
Whytoi
2004-07-13 20:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by lal_truckee
Decent everyday chains go for about US$25 in the Sierra of California -
top price imported chains for $50-$70 or so; but really there's no
reason to buy them - they are no better. So somebody is making an
indecent amount of profit off you guys, even if there's no local source
and all chains are hand-imported for resale by Aussies returning from tour.
Prices on ski related products are always inflated!

But it's false to say that imported diamond pattern chains are no
better. They fit much tightly and certainly easier to fit. The last
ladder chain I used just about took off my car's rear mud guard. It was
just impossible to tighten (despite being the correct size) when you
are stuck in the cold. And the diamond pattern drives much nicer than
ladder, certainly had more traction and control.

--
lal_truckee
2004-07-13 21:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whytoi
The last
ladder chain I used just about took off my car's rear mud guard. It was
just impossible to tighten (despite being the correct size) when you
are stuck in the cold.
Practice. I lived in the mountains (Sierra) for years with a two wheel
drive car with chains on about 50 days each winter average. No problem.
Car company (General Motors) claimed you couldn't even use chains on the
model but all you have to do is cut off excess on the inside, and learn
to install correctly (and tightly.) BTW the trick is to install the
chains, drive about 200m, stop and retighten. I got to where I could do
the whole show from start to dumping the empty box in the trunk (does Oz
say "boot?") in less than 5 min. No sweat.

Avoid cable "chains" like plague. If you're tempted to try cables in
spite of this warning, just pick some up along the road first storm.
They fall off regularly, even without breaking.
ANDY
2004-07-13 21:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by lal_truckee
Avoid cable "chains" like plague. If you're tempted to try cables in
spite of this warning, just pick some up along the road first storm.
They fall off regularly, even without breaking.
What is the difference between cable chains and ordinary ones? I have only
used rental ladder chains which you had to reach around the back to hook up
the chain on the inside as well as the outside.

ad
Whytoi
2004-07-17 00:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by lal_truckee
Post by Whytoi
The last
ladder chain I used just about took off my car's rear mud guard. It was
just impossible to tighten (despite being the correct size) when you
are stuck in the cold.
Practice. I lived in the mountains (Sierra) for years with a two wheel
drive car with chains on about 50 days each winter average. No problem.
Car company (General Motors) claimed you couldn't even use chains on the
model but all you have to do is cut off excess on the inside, and learn
to install correctly (and tightly.) BTW the trick is to install the
chains, drive about 200m, stop and retighten. I got to where I could do
the whole show from start to dumping the empty box in the trunk (does Oz
say "boot?") in less than 5 min. No sweat.
Avoid cable "chains" like plague. If you're tempted to try cables in
spite of this warning, just pick some up along the road first storm.
They fall off regularly, even without breaking.
I appreciate that. But unfortunately we in Oz don't have a lot of snow
and most of us rent chains from the petrol stop. As a result, there's
no room to modify or do much practice. And in the case I mentioned, it
was the "right" size for my tyre/wheels as repeated before and after by
the shop owner.

I've been a convert to the diamond chain and have made a little
invesment since.

--
ANDY
2004-07-19 04:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whytoi
Post by lal_truckee
Avoid cable "chains" like plague. If you're tempted to try cables in
spite of this warning, just pick some up along the road first storm.
They fall off regularly, even without breaking.
I appreciate that. But unfortunately we in Oz don't have a lot of snow
and most of us rent chains from the petrol stop. As a result, there's
no room to modify or do much practice. And in the case I mentioned, it
was the "right" size for my tyre/wheels as repeated before and after by
the shop owner.
I've been a convert to the diamond chain and have made a little
invesment since.
What brand did you invest in and how have you found them?

ad
Whytoi
2004-07-20 02:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by ANDY
Post by Whytoi
Post by lal_truckee
Avoid cable "chains" like plague. If you're tempted to try cables in
spite of this warning, just pick some up along the road first storm.
They fall off regularly, even without breaking.
I appreciate that. But unfortunately we in Oz don't have a lot of snow
and most of us rent chains from the petrol stop. As a result, there's
no room to modify or do much practice. And in the case I mentioned, it
was the "right" size for my tyre/wheels as repeated before and after by
the shop owner.
I've been a convert to the diamond chain and have made a little
invesment since.
What brand did you invest in and how have you found them?
Can't exactly remember. But a North European brand that come in a
yellow carry case.

Got it through Roof Rack City IIRC.

--

ANDY
2004-07-13 21:52:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whytoi
Post by lal_truckee
Decent everyday chains go for about US$25 in the Sierra of California -
top price imported chains for $50-$70 or so; but really there's no
reason to buy them - they are no better. So somebody is making an
indecent amount of profit off you guys, even if there's no local source
and all chains are hand-imported for resale by Aussies returning from tour.
Prices on ski related products are always inflated!
But it's false to say that imported diamond pattern chains are no
better. They fit much tightly and certainly easier to fit. The last
ladder chain I used just about took off my car's rear mud guard. It was
just impossible to tighten (despite being the correct size) when you
are stuck in the cold. And the diamond pattern drives much nicer than
ladder, certainly had more traction and control.
I found the ladder chains I hired didn't really grip against lateral
sliding-only a help for driving and braking control.
ad
Whytoi
2004-07-17 00:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by ANDY
I found the ladder chains I hired didn't really grip against lateral
sliding-only a help for driving and braking control.
ad
Same experience. The diamond pattern was so much better in terms of
road confidence.

--
J Doe
2004-07-13 06:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by ANDY
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
ad
www.ski.com.au

use the Q&A Forums there
AlexT
2004-07-13 09:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ANDY
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
ad
If you're only planning to go the once, I'd imagine you'd be better off
renting. If you're heading along a major route to a commercial/major
ski field, there will be places in towns as you get close to the
mountain that will rent snow chains.

If you know a thing or two about cars, please excuse my next remark...
make sure you know if your car is front wheel or rear wheel drive, and
put the chains on the correct tyres. Someone once mentioned in aus.cars
that they'd seen a bloke putting snow chains on the rear wheels of his
Magna. Bit of a worry.
Billy
2004-07-14 08:07:41 UTC
Permalink
From many years experience; skinny tyres and driving one gear below
what instinct tells you will get you most places, without the cost and
'wanker' image associated with 4WD. And always carry chains, and have
a practice run putting them on and taking them off in your driveway
before you get to the snow and risk finding yourself in blizzard
conditions accidentally tied up in chains like a sex toy beside the
road in front of all your mates.
Bushy
2004-07-14 11:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Billy
conditions accidentally tied up in chains like a sex toy beside the
road in front of all your mates.
Fuel for the trip and munchies : $85.00
Snow chains : $130.00
Skinny tyres : $240.00
Finding the link to the pictures your MATES took on the world wide web :
Priceless!

;<)

Peter
Bushy
2004-07-14 12:04:32 UTC
Permalink
;<)
Peter
p.s.
Loading Image...
Billy
2004-07-15 09:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bushy
Post by Billy
conditions accidentally tied up in chains like a sex toy beside the
road in front of all your mates.
Fuel for the trip and munchies : $85.00
Snow chains : $130.00
Skinny tyres : $240.00
Priceless!
;<)
Peter
I used to drive a Pajero, but my Argentinian girlfriend refused to
ride in it for some reason. No, seriously, I worked in the French Alps
on a farm for two winters and drove the farmer's old 2CV around. It'd
go through paddocks in the snow, no problems. 30cm on the road? Not a
worry. It was not uncommon to see a brand spanking new 4WD or two in a
ditch or stuck in the snow, usually with Parisian plates and Morzine
bound, with a totally clueless driver beside.
MJD
2004-07-18 07:43:27 UTC
Permalink
That was me who saw the guy in the Magna.
But I didn't see him putting them on. Only spotted him when he arrived at
the Horse Hill car park at the top of Mt Buller in a snowstorm!
Incidentally, I think ladder chains are actually illegal here in Aus except
for commercial vehicles because of the damage they do to roads and the lack
of sideways grip.
Post by AlexT
Post by ANDY
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
ad
If you're only planning to go the once, I'd imagine you'd be better off
renting. If you're heading along a major route to a commercial/major
ski field, there will be places in towns as you get close to the
mountain that will rent snow chains.
If you know a thing or two about cars, please excuse my next remark...
make sure you know if your car is front wheel or rear wheel drive, and
put the chains on the correct tyres. Someone once mentioned in aus.cars
that they'd seen a bloke putting snow chains on the rear wheels of his
Magna. Bit of a worry.
Whytoi
2004-07-19 02:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by MJD
I think ladder chains are actually illegal here in Aus except
for commercial vehicles because of the damage they do to roads and the lack
of sideways grip.
Never heard of that. Certainly contradicts the fact that the bulk of
rental snow chains are of the ladder type.

--
Ted Linnell
2004-07-14 08:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by ANDY
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
ad
Roof carrier Systems, in Burke Road Camberwell, near Toorak Road.

If you buy from them and them change your car, they will trade in the
original chains.

Ted.
==============================================================
| Ted Linnell <***@acslink.net.au> |
| |
| Nunawading, Victoria , Australia |
==============================================================
Baka Dasai
2004-07-15 09:20:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ANDY
Has anyone had experience with buying snowchains here in aus? I need to get
a pair and would be interested in any recommendations. I am in Melbourne.
If you have a front-wheel drive car, and if you get the type of chains
that need to be closed on the inside of the wheel as well as the outside
of the wheel, here's a tip.

Stop your car with the front wheels turned sharply. This makes it much
much much easier to close the chains on the inside of the wheel.
--
What was I thinking?
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